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If a tree falls and an expert doesn't hear it, is there a sound?

One of my main points here at Turnabout has been that if government sells itself as neutral administration and adjudication, then ultimate power belongs to whoever gets to say what knowledge is. Another has been that officially-recognized knowledge today is a matter of “expertise”: the views of self-contained bureaucracies of knowledge arrived at in accordance with procedures inaccessible to other people. Those views can be counted on to reflect the outlook and interests of experts as a class. In addition, by their nature as “expert” they can’t draw on things that aren’t neutral and can’t be formalized, like common sense, the lessons of tradition, and the day-to-day experience of ordinary people. Such things therefore become by definition “ignorant” and if persisted in “bigoted.”

All that’s very abstract, so it’s worthwhile keeping examples in mind. Here are a few I’ve noticed in the past couple of days:

  • A case unrelated to institutional or ideological concerns: scientists are finally getting around to admitting the existence of “rogue waves,” hundred-foot walls of water that suddenly appear and destroy ships on the high seas. Those waves hit freighters, tankers, passenger ships and oil platforms, they’ve been seen by thousands of capable and credible observers, they’ve been photographed, and every year they destroy a number of lives and hundreds of millions of dollars in property. Satellite scans now confirm how common they are. Nonetheless, for years scientists refused to believe they existed because they preferred to stand by theories of wave formation that told them that such a wave could only be a once-in-10,000 years event. (I touched on this issue briefly some time ago.)
  • If even physical scientists ignore the obvious, you can imagine how things are in softer fields of study that touch on moral, ideological and religious issues. This piece on modern psychology and priestly sex abuse suggests what can happen. Modern psychology, as a matter of fundamental principle, rejects the classical and Christian view of the soul as hierarchical and oriented toward higher principles. It views the soul as a collection of natural drives, habits and whatnot, all pretty much on the same level, and its health as the harmonious development of those constituents. As a result it is simply unable to make sense of asceticism, priestly celibacy for example, and is likely to recommend developing and acting on sexual impulses as necessary to human maturing. Hence—as such views spread through the Church during the postwar period—the changes in the operative attitudes of Church authorities toward sexual misconduct, and ultimately the gross failures of leadership and discipline that led to a rogue wave of pederasty they were simply unable to recognize and treat as a serious problem.
  • And here’s a rather wordy and pugnacious, but illuminating, account of how clergy conferences look to an Orthodox clergyman. Talking to the other priests and the bishop about personal and practical experiences is helpful, but it’s not accredited knowledge and therefore—even, apparently, within the Orthodox Church—can’t be taken altogether seriously. So they have to trot out the experts. As usual in these things, the experts know absolutely nothing that’s relevant to the situation, so they want to become rogue waves themselves, tearing through the Church and destroying everything while trying to make it over in whatever image they’re taken with.


There are some occasions where the spitting is not just at the cross, but at Christians, cross-bearing or otherwise.

What should a Christian or Jewish tradcon’s reaction be to the “spitting” stories linked by Myst. Str. (10/15, 7:54pm) and Will S. (today, 3:17am)? I believe it should not include any sort of endorsement of the liberal tactic of calling for a “hate-crime”-style governmental crack-down that would in effect turn Orthodox Christianity or Christianity in general into an Israeli governmental sacred cow. This spitting behavior should be prosecuted, yes: under ordinary ethnicity-neutral, culture-neutral laws already on the books—disorderly conduct, disturbing the peace, assault, and so on, not become the pretext for a thought-control crack-down via hate-crimes statutes. (By the way, ever notice how the only genuine, honest-to-goodness hate crime, where “hate-crimes” laws are concerned, is the hate-crime laws themselves and nothing else?) I also believe the Christian or Jewish tradcon reaction should not include any sort of endorsement of the liberal position that this behavior shows tribalism and nationalism are undesirable and therefore should be eliminated from the world stage. A tradcon should not endorse that because unlike the liberals he is equipped with the brain cells, the brain circuits, to enable him to recognize that the postive aspects of tribalism and nationalism vastly outweigh unfortunate aberrant manifestations such as this.

Everyone agrees this kind of behavior is not only unacceptable but shocking and disgusting no matter who does it or where, be it Jewish Yeshiva students doing it to the Greek Orthodox in Jerusalem, German skinhead teenagers doing it to Jews in Berlin, or Moslem Arab immigrants doing it to Jews in Antwerp and Paris. That said, I don’t believe these Yeshiva students are just calmly going around spitting on people: individuals don’t act like that unless they’re very angry and frustrated, and the Palestinians aren’t the only ones capable of becoming angry and frustrated in that part of the world. My guess would be they’re quite frustrated about something they feel extremely strongly about which isn’t being addressed by the reigning liberal government establishment in that country—perhaps something to do with the way that liberal establishment keeps refusing to take the steps needed to make Israel finally into an actual country instead of what it’s been since 1948, sort of a baby that’s stuck in the birth canal unable to get all the way born.

Whatever their reason for spitting, I as a tradcon feel that:

1) The government should crack down on it while treating it no differently from simple assault and so on: no hate-crimes-type statutes please. I refer to actually spitting into faces or directly onto religious objects carried by priests, etc., not to spitting on the ground. Spitting on the ground from whatever motivation is no business of the government’s (apart from neutral public-health ordinances against spitting on the ground, obviously), and if Christians don’t like Jews spitting on the ground as they pass, let them leave Jerusalem, because nothing can be done about it: their departure and what amounts to governmental thought-control are the only alternatives to their just ignoring it, and thought-control is one-hundred-percent unacceptable.

2) The existence of tribalism and nationalism, which I believe tradcons ought to view as great goods in life, is not called into question by this story whatsoever, contrary to how the liberal mind would tend to view this.

3) The left-liberals running Israel should stop frustrating Jewish nationalists, patriots, and Zionists by their policies that promise ultimately to be suicide for that country.


“If a tree falls and an expert doesn’t hear it, is there a sound?” Yes, the sweetest, most melodious sound in all creation: the sound of entropy being brought clanking, screeching, grinding to a halt.


orthodoxs(kabbalists-talmudics,pharisees)jews as that young people involved in attacks against evangelicals and liturgical churches are no zionists,anger and frustration related to israeli-palestinian conflict is no relevant in this issue,knows more about jews sects and cults

The Israeli Interior Ministry is telling the police in Jerusalem to put an end to the spitting:

“[Israeli] Interior Minister Avraham Poraz issued a strongly worded statement Tuesday against incidents of Jews spitting at Christian clergy in Jerusalem, saying he was ‘repulsed’ by the repeated attacks. […] Poraz called such behavior by ultra-Orthodox Jewish students ‘intolerable,’ and asked Public Security Minister Gideon Ezra to ‘take all the necessary steps to prevent these incidents in the future.’ “

Incidentally, while this repulsive spitting on clergy is needless to say very bad and gives an extremely bad impression of the Ultra-Orthodox Jewish students apparently doing it, how common can it be, in view of the following from the same article?:

“Police spokesman Gil Kleiman said that the last such case handled by police was more than two years ago […].”

My strong expectation is the Israeli government and the Jerusalem police will bring this spitting-on-clergy business to a halt immediately. These are probably the last news reports of it we’ll see for the rest of our lives.

“If a tree falls and an expert doesn’t hear it, is there a sound?” Yes, the sweetest, most melodious sound in all creation: the sound of entropy being brought clanking, screeching, grinding to a halt.


majority from cases,happening in recurring ways in a daily basis (here),are unnoticed to authorities,this is no the last reports you can reads about it,this is no the only and no the more violent attack suffered by evangelicals and liturgical churches,considers famous supporters from israel has denounced these atrocities:vandalization from christian tombs,assasinations from jews converted to gospel,menaces and attacks against christians missionaries(here),destruction from a bible store,destruction from an evangelical church with jews members in galilee,arson attacks against a baptist church in jerusalem,forced deportation from christians,including christians daughters from a jewish family,illegal expelling from a public school from a christian jew librarian,clapdown against churches from guest workers,enactment from a law forbidding evangelism,while jewish proselitism is funded by state,agressions against archaelogists working in old places(here).